An offer the desperate cannot refuse

Walking along the Roman Road, East London before Christmas I found the local “Money Shop” had a wonderful special offer for customers – “pay only £5 for a £95 loan” at only 86.7% typical APR. So that’s okay then. An absolute bargain then with inflation at 4.8%?

Today I walked past the “shop” and it had no bill boards out on the pavement but it was announcing its “half price sale” in the windows. “ Pay only £7 (usually £14) for a £93 loan with our Half Price Sale. 141.9% APR typical. The total amount payable of £100 is repaid in 30 days".

Hmmm? Even the ubiquitous Barclaycard has credit available at 14.9% APR. Admittedly many of the Money Shop customers would be refused a credit card.

The Money Shop” website states that they have 250 stores in the country. You can also click on their TV adverts! This usury is not paying their staff great wages. The same site advertises for customer service reps for £14,000 (and 5% bonus) while the shop managers can get up to £22, 000 with “unlimited bonuses”! Oh, they are also “investors in people”.

Only a couple of hundred yards down the road is a credit union office, where you can get loans at only 12.68%. If you repay it over 12 months it could only cost 6.6%.

The money shop is a bit coy about who owns it. Hopefully my pension fund has no investment in it (anyone know?).

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Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#1)

By God I hate to see people getting ripped off.

The problem is that you can't legislate against someone charging massive sums for a service and preying on the desperate (if they have capacity to contract etc...) but can something not be done about claims such as "Best deals around" and "UK's Number 1" - clearly, this is misdirection.

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#3)

Hi Tony

I’ve been thinking of what could be done and actually you can legislate against excessive interest rates?  There use to be credit controls which were abolished by Thatcher?  This is not just “old labour” but actually surely it is the role of the state to legislate against such blatant exploitation of vulnerable people?  Of course there must be better education in schools about personal finance and what interest rates mean.  Maybe the government could open an account for everyone in a credit union as they did with kids? 

 

However, many of the people who use these “shops” will be doing this because they have no choice.  This is the only source (apart from the illegal loan sharks) for emergency credit.

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#4)

Really? I wasn't aware.

I wonder though, who's to decide at what point the rate becomes excessive and therefore actionable?

It's surprising because I'd wonder if the State set precedent on intervention on excessive interest rates - why not on excessive terms and conditions on contractual arrangements? Why not on excessive milk prices for that matter?

I agree that government should protect or at least warn the vulnerable from this infuriating excess. I just didn't think the State could intervene on an adult with the capacity to enter into legal arrangements getting poor value for money.

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#5)

> you can't legislate against someone charging massive sums

Really? I thought quite a few countries limit the amount of interest that can be charged - often called usury laws. e.g. many U.S. states have max interest rate limits that unlicensed entitities can charge, licensed entities can charge more but have their own fairness rules I think. If the U.S. can do something in this area, why can't we?

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#6)

Of course you can legislate against excessive interest charges.  There is a whole National Housing Federation campaign on it:

http://www.debt-on-our-doorstep.com/

Many doorstep lenders target people unable to get access to credit, and who may not even have a bank account, with loans on rates of up to 800%.  That's not a properly functioning market, that's modern day indentured servitude.

The solution, I think, is to have a cap on loan interest to shut down the most ruthless doorstep lenders, and to strengthen credit unions and other, 'safe' sources of credit.  But to say we can't do anything?  Sheesh. 

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#8)

Ok ok - I stand corrected...

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#2)

Excellent post

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#7)

This discussion has drifted off into the 1330% APR thread, which identified the UK Debt on our Doorstep campaign. They have an excellect MPs briefing paper, whose main points are:

  • that caps below 36% provide some evidence of credit rationing by lenders but that we do not know the true extent of this
  • The Government’s position that it is legitimate to provide credit (at virtually any cost) to low-income households will result in severe hardship for many families
  • there is no published bibliography to the report on the DTI website and we find it hard to believe that the conclusions made in the Policis report could be squared with the evidence of larger studies conducted by leading academics in the field.
  • Everything appears to be reduced to a view that ‘dynamic’ markets are those that provide high levels of high cost products and that these are of themselves desirable.  No attempt appears to have been made by the DTI to consider the social consequences of facilitating such a market in the first instance.

This is an opportunity for Labour to show some policy difference with the Tories. If initially set at a 60% limit as Canada has, plus a fixed fee allowance for tiny loans, this is unlikely to do any harm and prevents complete rip-offs.  Like the NMW this could be slowly tightened over the years, watching for any adverse effects. Seems a small social and political opportunity, though there is the risk Cameron would undercut a 60% starting limit.

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#9)

Banking is all about risk versus reward.  If the interest rate is reduced, the banks will mediate the risk that they are prepared to take with the lender.  60% is far too high and is basically saying that the lender doesn't really believe that the loaner is able to repay the loan.

Personally I would put it at 3% above LIBOR for secured debt and 6% above LIBOR for unsecured debt.

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#10)

I agree with you ComradeNorton. Trouble is this government evidently doesn't. I think the only chance of getting this started is with a rate that obviously no-one can object to, then slowly tighten the screw toward something reasonable. That way the doubters can have their worries of credit rationing gradually shown wrong.

Re: An offer the desperate cannot refuse (#11)

You know I am not sure that bankers necessarily disagree with credit control.  I am an ex-corporate financier and we would often discuss how we found certain rates to be little more than loan sharking and suprised at the rates allowed.

The key is to limit the rate rather than the quantum together with the rate incorporating any lenders fee such that one cannot use third party advisers to get around the rules.

The danger is that it takes out considerable credit from the economy which would damage high street spending.